NAGPUR
(20-9-1955)
No. 1
Name-Dr. D. G. Moses.
Father�s name-Drevium
Moses.
Occupation-Principal,
Hislop College.
Address-Nagpur.-
I am Principal of the Hislop College from 1941. I am connected with the Institution from 1926 as Professor of Philosophy. The Hislop College was formerly founded by the Church of Scotland and is at present managed by a Board of Directors with headquarters constituted in Madhya Pradesh. It provides graduate and post-graduate education in Arts and Science subjects and is not directly connected with Church. Amongst Directors there are three members who are representing Mid India Christian Council. At present there are about 1,100 students on the roll including women students. There are about 100 Christian students now and the rest are non-Christians. The Institution receives a block grant of Rs. 10,000 annually from the Church of Scotland; the other expenses are met out of fees and grant-in-aid from Government. On behalf of the Church of Scotland a Missionary Professor Miss Ward has been appointed Lecturer in English. We have an American Negro who is in charge of Physical education and another American who is teaching sociology. They are paid by the American Methodist Mission.
The North India United Church of Nagpur carries on evangelical and other activities in Madhya Pradesh. I am a member thereof. They run schools, hospitals and a dispensary at Dhapewada. For the last four or five years this institution has got no paid evangelists to my knowledge. I and other members of this institution believe in the basic tennets of Christianity that every Christian is an evangelist a Missionary Christian.
My ideas of propagating the Christian religion are as follows:-
�It consists in telling all and sundry what great things the Lord has done to you. The motive is to express infinite thankfulness to God for what he has done. The idea of converting people to my faith is not inherent in the concept of propagating my religion. In fact I do not place any importance on mere numbers although if I come across a person who having heard me �bear witness� wishes to join my faith I would rejoice. The Christian wants to exist as a member of the Church and not as a Christian community in the political sense. There can be no ulterior motive in propagating the religion. In course of my experience I have come across cases in which genuine believers embraced Christianity together with the entire family and also cases in which individuals wanted to become converts simply to marry a Christian girl. The possibility of improper motives entering into the minds of Christians for converting people merely for the sake of numbers is there, as it is present amongst any other section of the community. But this I would not classify as propagation of such religion. If masses are induced to become Christians only to add to the numbers for secular objects and on false pretences, that is not propagation of religion.�
�If there is a body which declares its intention to convert 600,000 villages to Christianity with material resources then I would not call it as propagation of religion. If such activities are checked by society I would say that the action would be justified as it aims to prevent growth of ill-feeling amongst various sections of community.�
Question.-If a body declares itself under the label of �aggressive evangelism� or �evangelical crusade� and uses such means as television, dramas, radios, mobile projection vans, the media of mass communication, recording, films, pictures, posters, illustrated leaflets flannel graphs, puppets, etc., and. works only in ore caste like Uraons, Mahars or Satnamis will you call it propagation?
Answer.-Yes, provided evangelism is understood in the sense explained by me above. It would not be propagation if these activities are done with a view to convert 600,000 villagers in 10 years.
This is too much of a business method. It is not a spiritual method.
In the year 1910 at Edinburough, World Council, it was recommended to leave to the Indians the evangelistic activities. Last year at Evanstone it was decided that the Christian church is a world church and it is supra-national Evanstone expects that churches in India would be �rooted in the soil yet supranational in their witness�.
Supra-national does not mean de-nationalisation but only means that the State should not interfere with the creed that God is the final authority. The Chairman read out �The Christian forces of the world though still a minority must on that very account quickly become a very organised and militant minority� (World Christian Handbook, page 57, 1952). I do not subscribe to this. In my opinion the Church in India should be one Church as everywhere and should be entirely under the control of Indians. In my view the Church in India must eschew denominational differences and must become one Church. I do not agree with Dr. Pickett if he thinks that a National Church in India would reflect the spirit of political Nationalism. But I disagree with Rev. Anantrao. (See N. C. C., December 1954, page 544). When he says that the Christians in India would be unifying if the foreign support is stopped.
I would like the Christian faith to absorb all the best in Indian culture and to express itself in Indian ways.
In other
words there should be an Indian expression of Christianity. If a
school or a hospital is used mainly as an instrument for conversion to
Christianity it is not evangelism. I thoroughly disapprove of primary
schools being started for utilising the fees for maintaining a church.
I disapprove of the policy of having Christi Raj or Masahi Sthan.
No. 2
Name-Rev. Canon Kurian.
Caste-Christian.
Address-Nagpur, Cathedral
House, Nagpur.
In reply to the questionnaire issued by the Committee I have filed a statement. I belong to the Gondwana Mission. I was formerly in Mandla and have come to Nagpur in January 1955.
There is difference between conversion and proselytization. Proselytization means only adding to the numbers. We have got only one Pracharak. The preaching does not mean attacking any other religion or the persons who are venerated by them. If somebody were to say that unless he became a Christian he would go to hell it is not called propagation. If the Government is helping the Harijans and aboriginals I would not call it as an inducement. It would be good if they were to extend their help to needy Christians. We have had no trouble from the Government officials.
The grants
which we used to get from abroad are being gradually reduced. This
year we only got £ 200 and next year we may get less. Religious
instruction in schools should be left to individual choice.
No. 3
(21-9-1955)
Name-Shri Jal Gimi.
Occupation-Document
Expert.
Address-Nagpur.
I was a student in the St. Francis de-Sales High School and St. John�s High School. I joined Morris College afterwards. Both are Roman Catholic schools. Bible history was one of the subjects prescribed for the junior and senior Cambridge examinations. That was St. Francis D. School. There was also catechism class meant for Roman Catholic boys. That used to be the first period of the day. Non-Catholics were not obliged to attend the class. But I used to attend the class at the instance of my father. He was a student of St. Xavier�s College, Bombay. When I was attending the classes a lot of interest was shown in me by the Father. The special interest went to the extent that the Father said to me that I should attend special instructions on Sunday, afternoons. I continued attending the �special lectures�, on Sunday, afternoons with a particular priest. One afternoon as I entered the room of the Priest I saw his desk covered with huge thick volumes, presumably literature concerning Christianity. No sooner. I stepped in then the Priest remarked �Jal, your Zoraster had no right to found your religion�. However small I was in age, i.e. (about 13 or 14 years) something snapped inside me and I retorted by saying �Father, if my Zoraster had no right to found my religion, your Christ had no right to found your religion�. Naturally I was very badly caned. The caning was so severe that while in the process I managed to run out of his room straight home and showed the blue and black marks on my body to my father. Next morning my father approached the school authorities and without going into the demerits of the affair had my name removed from the school roll. This was in 1928. I am running 41 now. I was then admitted in St. John�s High School, where not a word of Christianity and its teaching was ever breathed by the priests in the institution. There were quite a large number of Catholic boys. There were no catechism classes in the school nor was there any Bible class.
In the St. Francis High School we were often told by some priests, �Boys, non-Catholic souls have no salvation unless they became Catholics,� because we were not Roman Catholics.
I personally and in fact my whole family have great reverence for Christ and of my daily prayers is the Lord�s prayer, i.e. (our Father).
I might also state their bright side and some of the very good points that I know concerning these Missionary activities which to my mind considerably outweigh the little unfortunate experience that I had in my school days. The sisters of Charity, as they are called, have been known by me to do such good work and under circumstances which I feel I personally would never have the courage to perform. One such instance is about a place close to Ahmedabad where I was told the lepers in the city were ousted from the Municipal area and not cared for either by the State or the local bodies. These lepers got together and managed to have a mud and tatta shelter for themselves and did not dare to leave the four walls lest they might be punished. The condition in which they lived must have been worse than that of animals. For their bread and butter they used to hand a basket outside their huts to receive alms. This went on for quite some time, till the sisters of Charity heard about this and went all out to help them, and make them live as human beings as they do now. Those inhabitants still maintain their own religion. There has been so far no interference with their original faith. To the best of my knowledge I saw that institution three years ago. On my enquiry I was told that none of the inmates have changed their religion. My enquiry was not from the lepers. It is managed by the Catholics.
I have never been to Jashpur or any other tribal areas. My experience is mostly confined to towns, i.e. to urban areas.
There is another instance which has occurred just about a fortnight back when my own cook lost his wife after child birth. The 10 day old child was a problem to the young father and his old mother who was practically blind and bent double with age. He comes to me and tells me that his neighbours in the Dharampeth area have suggested that the child be placed in the custody of the Sisters of Charity in the local Maria Immaculate Convent, till such time as the child is able to stand on its own legs and run. This man belongs to the scheduled caste and this reflects very creditably on the Missionaries that a Hindu should voluntarily take his own child for safe custody to people belonging to different faith altogether. In fact what struck me then was, why, have not people in his own community, viz., the Hindus have a home for such cases. I mean I have known of a very good institution here called the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh which is doing lot of good work in the country but unfortunately is paying very little attention to the social uplift and religious teachings amongst the lower strata of society. If they take up such work I am positive that the Missionaries will find anything hard to do in this country.
To
Mr. Tiwari o Mungeli.- I have never attended any Protestant institution
for school or college, so I do not know whether boys or students are told
by the Priest concerned that their only salvation is in being Christians.
I have attended church services in the Methodist Church in Nagpur twice
or thrice. I was the only non-Christian there. I went there with
Christian friends. After 1947 I have heard that people were converted
by inducement but I have no personal knowledge of any instance. I heard
this in bar-room.
No. 4
Name.-Dr. E. Asirvatham.
Age.-58.
Occupation.-Head
of the Department of Political Science, University of Nagpur.
Chairman.- When I come across such phrases as �aggressive evangelism�, �evangelical crusade�, �invasion teams� and such other form suggesting a drive, it strikes me that it may amount to propaganda.
Question.- Can these expressions be described as propaganda?
Answer.- Such a process, I shall take with a grain of salt. In India I think these are likely to be misunderstood. As a member of Christian church I would deprecate the use of such language or do not approve of such language which is likely to do more harm than good. 600,000 villages mentioned in the address of Alexander Mc. Liesh of World Dominion Press may mean only that they went to convert the whole of India.
Since the termination of the war a great number of narrow-minded, bigotted and outlandish Missionaries have come out to India. My suggestion is that a body like the National Christian Council should be asked to screen the Missionaries coming to India.
As I do not know the facts relating to Indonesia, Karens in Burma and. Nagas in Assam I cannot say anything. My feeling is that if there is any trouble like this, these people will go revolting as Nagas, Karens but not as Christians. If it is proved in a Judicial manner with due process of law that it is exciting disaffection than legal steps should be taken, preventive measures may be taken.
I know the World Council of Churches and International Missionary Council.
Question.- I just read out and I want an interpretation of the following expression:-
�The need of particular churches to be rooted in the soil and yet being supranational in their witness and obedience.� Does this apply to the Church of England?
Answer.- Supranational does not mean anti-national or denational, I mean by obedience, obedience to God and not to Church.
Question.- Could you kindly explain the meaning of the passage, �the Christian forces of the world though in a minority should become a militant minority�
It only means to roll up your sleaves and be ready.
Question.- Will you kindly interpret for me this expression �But when there is a conflict of loyalty between Christ and the State, the true Christian has necessarily to choose obedience to Christ (National Christian Council Review, April 1955). Would the word Christ include within the ambit of its meaning �the Worldwide Organisation of the Christian Church� (World Handbook, 1952, page 58).
Answer.- I cannot say yes or no.
I want a Church a free church in India without any authority from outside India. In my life-time I would like to see a genuine indigenous church which I hope will have the uniqueness of our national character. It will be loyal to every culture. I would like to incorporate the best in the spiritual and moral experience, i.e., of cultures of all lands.
I am in favour of Church unity, but I see many difficulties in the way.
The Union of Dr. Pickett as extracted at page 544 of December National Christian council Review, 1954, was read out.
I say that there can be no true and lasting Internationalism which is not rooted in sound nationalism.
Foreign help has stood in the way of church of India reaching Indian manhood. Even if Indians are unified and become independent of foreign churches, it can receive foreign aid, I have no objection to receive money from Foreign Boards because no strings are attached.
If there is a United church in India there is no fear of its being utilised by any foreign power. If it is organised on a democratic method there will be no fear.
I disapprove of what is said in Missions in Mid-India as translated into Hindi, viz., that Police officers, forest officers and teachers should be utilised for converting non-Christians to Christianity and that the responsibility of proselytisation should be put on their shoulders. Any person whether he be a Christian or a non-Christian who uses his official position to give direct or indirect support to any religion is not true to the purpose and spirit of religion.
I am not in favour if hospitals are used for proselytising people.
To Shri S. K. Deshpande-
If mass conversion means converting of a large mass of people without any adequate preparation and the using of illegitimate methods I am not for it.
Will you
like to have the propaganda of the type that unless you resort to Bible
there is no salvation? My answer is: If a person says that Bible contains
the word of God and solves ones moral and spiritual problem, as well as
problems of the world I am in favour of it. The Bible is not the
only source, although as a Christian I believe to be so.
(22-9-1955)
No. 5
Name.-Shri B. E. Mandlekar.
Age.-59.
Occupation.-Advocate,
Supreme Court.
Address.-Nagpur.
I am submitting the copy of my book, �Musings�, wherein I have studied the relevant questions which are being considered by the Committee. The special pages to which I wish to draw the attention of the Committee are:-
(1) Pages 66 to 68.-A letter to Dr. Cholkar (Prohibition of Cow Slaughter).I turn to question No. 11.
(2) Pages 194 and 107.-Intended legislation regarding �Place of Religion in the National Scheme of Education�.
(3) Pages 111 to 117.
(4) Pages 297 to 298.-�Hindu New Year�s Day�.
In the present infant stage of our Bharat it is necessary that there should be no foreign influence in our national life. In our political life we do not want any interference either from America or from Moscow. In the social life, as well as in economics, we want to develop our own life. In my scheme of national evolution I will not exclude any Indian for his economic, social or philosophic outlook the assistance which he can take from his brother, I would not exclude also knowledge received through books from outsiders, but as far as monetary or other help is concerned, it creates a slavish mentality in the person receiving, as it is the hand which gives, that controls. My firm belief has been, from whatever I have read, that in matters of religious and philosophic thoughts Bharat has not to look for anybody for any help or guidance. It is being abundantly proved that what was mentioned by Bharat philosophers is being inductively proved by Western sciences and applied psychology. In our infant state, and particularly after the removal of domination by Muslims and Britishers from India, Bharat has not yet got full time to remove the rust or the ashes of embers of philosophic knowledge in books of Hindu philosophy from embers and experience of Bharat�s great swears. To illustrate: If Swami Vivekananda�s teachings are carried to every home in India, I am perfectly sure that no one would look or listen to foreign propagandists in religion preaching contrary to Hindu religion.
2. I would like to learn the principles of Christian religion from a Christian Indian, but not from any foreigner, particularly if he supplies money to Indians-institutions for the teachings of Christian religion. Because of their Indian background Indian Christians would be able to explain more correctly than a foreigner.
When the foreign Missionary goes to the aboriginals or to the untouchables of the Hindus be wants to exploit their ignorance and economic difficulties. If a foreigner goes to this area to start a school or to open a hospital I would suspect his motive because be would be doing so with the support of foreign funds; because the foreign funds may be received for the purpose of conversion. That means he should render help to poor people out of humanitarian motives but not to convert them, i.e., with ulterior motive. I do not wish that there should be any increase in the number of converts.
In my experience of elections I found that if I approach a Christian he could say that he would vote according to the instructions of the Christian Association. This means that the individual Christian is under the influence of some institution. If such a Christian is not under any obligation to any foreign body on account of monetary assistance, then I should say that there is no objection to his voting for anybody. I regard religion as a mode of social control and therefore if there is any influence working from outside in the region of religion I would suspect that some kind of force is working behind it. What I fear is that this body will be separated from the bulk of the nation.
Schools and hospitals should not be used for proselytisation, particularly with the aid of foreign funds.
I hold that conversion to Christianity adversely affects national loyalty.
If there is a war between a Muslim and a Hindu the Christian will remain neutral, but if there is a war between Christian and Hindus the Christians will help Christian.
When the Christians did not press for a separate state for themselves they did so on the assurance that the Indian Republic is going to be a member of the Commonwealth. I am prepared to absorb everything that Christianity can contribute through Indian Christian channels. Any resident of India is a Hindu.
My answer to question No. 95 is to be found on page 113 onwards of the book �Musings�.
I am in favour of religious teachings in schools and colleges. Today it so happens that although the adherents of one religion think that their religion is universal that claim is not admitted by others. On account of this conflict there arises difficulty in teaching religion in schools.
By religious teaching of Hinduism I mean that a pupil should know something about Krishna, Ram and other great personalities who are separated by Hindus. I would have no objection to teach the life of Jesus Christ, also his teachings. If in the class there are Hindus, Muslims, Parsis, the prayers of the class would be the prayer of the majority. I think it is quite fair that minorities in India should offer the Hindu prayers.
I want that there should be text books containing the lives of Jesus, Zoraster, or Buddha and so on.
I would be in favour of special classes to be held on Sundays for teaching religion, in the different classes. If the background of the religious philosophy is common, then the deity that is worshipped becomes un important. The Secular State must legislate for all persons in India irrespective of their different religion, e.g., on bigamy. This is good to all.
I am in favour of the State taking over the Maths with all their property and utilising it for social and charitable works.
To Shri Tiwari of Mungeli.
I came to know from the Nagpur Christians that an individual Christian is not free to vote for the man of his choice. I cannot mention names. I cannot mention any instance of a person having become a Christian in my presence. If a Christian Missionary finds that there are some young boys without any food or clothes, no borne, etc., and he takes them to some place of shelter and gives them food, education, etc., it is objectionable if he does it with the idea of converting them. I do not believe that any such boy brought up by Christians will remain a Hindu. I admit that there are people who are helpless. I have not seen street preaching for the last 25 years. I do not object to medical relief being given by any Christian provided he does not get money from abroad and from religious institutions I would welcome any help, from e.g., the Ford Foundation. There are many in Hindu society to render help to poor people. They are of a religious character. I know the Christian doctrine that one must love one�s neighbour and that helpless people should be helped. But I do not desire that this sentiment should be used for converting people. If a helpless Christian comes to be in distress I will help him as I would help a Hindu. I would not ask him to change his religion. I have no objection if a Christian helps a helpless Hindu. I maintain that Schools or Colleges in India should not get any financial help from abroad, particularly from religious institutions. I do not object to Ramkrishna Mission receiving help from outside. Ramkrishna Mission does not convert. I have stated in my book entitled �Musings� that I do not belong to any political party. (Page 292).
I have
no objection to dine with a Mahar and I have inter-dined with Mahars.
On account of the present social outlook inter-marriages with Mahars will
not be favoured. The untouchables (many of them) have become Christians
not by conviction but by helpless conditions. I come across instances of
about 500 untouchables and aboriginals having become Christians on account
of their economic distress. They are all from Madhya Pradesh and
I came to know through the official records. Even before 1947 the
untouchables of a level as to enter the temple would have been allowed
to enter the temples. I would not have allowed a man wearing dirty clothes
and if he is a leper, to enter the temple. Out of the 500 conversions
which I have mentioned there was none literate, i.e., who have received
primary education. They were either such as could merely make a signature,
but mostly who would give their thumb-impression. If there are others
who are educated upto matriculation standard or even graduates, have become
Christian, it may be due to promote his further chances. Even if
a Missionary doctor serves the lepers for 10 years and then out of the
feeling of gratitude a patient embraces Christianity, it is objectionable.
If an Indian Christian pastor is converted by an Arya Samajist I have no
objection, if the pastor by conviction comes to believe in Hinduism.
I have no objection to convert him by conviction. The population
of Hindus in India may be about 28 crores, and the population of Christians
may be about 80 lacs. I am not able to tell the present population of Madhya
Pradesh. The population of Madhya Pradesh before the merger was two
and half crores. The Christians may be about 4 to 6 per cent of the
total population of Madhya Pradesh.
(23-9-1955)
No. 6
Name.-Rev. John W.
Sadiq.
Caste.-Christian.
Age.-45 years.
Occupation.-Secretary,
National Christian Council and Priest.
Address.-Nagpur.
I have read your article published in the National Christian Council Review of January 1930. There is a word of difference between a man who respects Christ as a great man and the person who acknowledges Him as his personal Lord and Saviour. The latter by joining the church participates and in some sense carries on the work, which Christ entrusted to be done. Even if a man were to venerate Jesus as the perfect manifestation of God on earth still he would not be a Christian, if he does not associate himself with other Christians, as a member of the Church, involving baptism. I differ from Roman Catholics in regard to church and doctrines. The Christian doctrine is only an attempt to interpret the life and the teachings of Jesus. No one can be a Christian unless he regards Jesus as his Lord and the only Lord. Anybody who is outside the church cannot be called a Christian. A Christian is he who believes that the only wav of seeking peace is through Jesus Christ.
Question.- But Jesus himself said not everyone that calleth Me Lord and Lord will enter into the Kingdom of My Father but he that doeth the will of My Father which is Heaven. (Mathew, VI 21).
Answer.- He was only emphasising there the contradiction between those only calling Him Lord and Lord and those who did not do the will of the Lord. Even among the members of the church there are quite a large number of people who are not truly Christians. There can be and may be people who belong to the church by Baptism, but may not be true Christians.
In 1910 there was a meeting of the International Missionary Council in Edinburgh. The two principal recommendations were that it was the duty of the Christians to preach the Gospel to the whole world and secondly it can best be done by co-operation and unity. It was always understood that the church was more important than the Missions. Many Missionary Societies have merged in the Church. In 1912-13 the National Missionary Council of India, Burma and Ceylon, was started to give effect to the aforesaid principles. Later on it became National Christian Council in 1923.
In 1928 there was second World Missionary Conference in Jerusalem and the third in 1938 at Tambaram in Madras. In Tambaram the emphasis on the church was greatly stressed. I will send you a copy of the Tambaram Conference minutes (abridged report). There was a Regional Conference for South East Asia at Bangkok which was a joint effort of the International Missionary Council and the World Council of Churches. Dr. Raja D. Manikam (also Reverend) is the Joint Secretary of the International Missionary Council and the World Council of Churches formed in the year 1948.
At the Conference in Bangkok it was decided that Christ sitting on the right hand of God reigns and the church owes it to the world and reminding�� etc. [Christianity and Asian Revolution (pages 90- 91)]. The church is concerned with Social, Economical and Political problems. In 1952 at Lucknow there was a meeting of the World Council of Churches. This was mainly in preparation for the second World Council of Churches meeting at Evanston, in 1954. It concerned itself with the sphere of the entire life and activities of the church all over the world. The International Missionary Council and World Council of Churches have executive committees to carry on their work. We do not approve of mass conversions; even conversion of individuals for political motives is objectionable. On this particular point I agree with Sardar Patel�s words (page 138, The Whole World is My Neighbour). I do not like the word mass conversion. There have been and will be group conversions. Conversion means to raise their standard of life as a whole including spiritual. If groups desire conversion purely for social and economic aims without regard to their essential spiritual life it is not to be encouraged. There is a lot of misery, sickness and illiteracy among the people. To take advantage of their holplessness would be un-Christian, Even if the Bible women preach in. the halls of the hospitals or for the purpose of evangelization there is no objection. I wont compel anybody, i.e., any patient.
Proselytising means simply adding numbers to which we are opposed. Evangelism is conversion by conviction. The Christian does not distinguish between spiritual and secular life. There can be no divorce between the two.
If a preacher decries mother man�s religion and makes unfair comparisons between thou personalities venerated by the different religions it is not desirable. If the preaching is that �we are all sinners and that we as Christians have found forgiveness in Christ, we have a right to proclaim this, just as anybody has a right to proclaim it if he has found a similar experience. I do not approve of decrying personalities who are held in reverence like Ram and Krishna.
Question.- Kindly interpret to me, �the need of particular church to be rooted in the soil, yet supranational in their witness a rid obedience (page� 29, World Christian Handbook, 1952),
Answer.- Here the word obedience to Christ is through the Church and so Church, is indispensable.
The resolutions passed at the Ecumenical Council are not binding but they are advisory. They are entitled to consideration and respect.
The expression �militant minority� occurring on page 57 �World Christian Handbook, 1952�, is an unfortunate phrase. It only means energetic effort.
Karens in Burma, Amboyncse in Indonesia, Uraons and Mundas in Orissa, Jharkhand in Madhya, Pradesh, etc., have been agitating. I have not studied these movement. They may be due to political immaturity and social troubles.
The, idea of the chosen people occurring at page 75 of National Christian Council Review of February 1954 has no political, significance. Supranational is to be understood only in a spiritual sense.
Question.- Will you kindly illustrate the meaning of supranational regarding the English Church?
Answer.- The Church of England is an established Church, but there are churches in practically every State in the world which together with the Church of England consider themselves as members, of one Church known as the Anglican Communion.
Question.- Is not the established Church of England the National Church of England.
Answer.- In England itself this does not mean that Church can override the State.
The nationalism which is referred to (at page 544 National Christian Council Review of December 1954) as a danger is a possible tendency that might show itself in a single united Church in India which will concern itself solely with national affairs and forget that there are fellow-believers and Churches in other country.
The mention of �a call to evangelise 600,000 villages in India in 10 years� which was issued by the National Missionary Society at Madras means the preaching of Christianity only. The purpose was that the Gospel of Christ was heard by as many people as possible in the whole country.
Question.- Would you like the Mission property to be transferred to Indian Christians as the church property, as I understand, has already been done in some cases ?
Answer.- That is what we have been urging for the last 15 years. Most of the Missions are only eager to transfer their properties in India to properly constituted trusts but are prevented from doing so because of the prohibitive cost of both registration and stamp duty. We mean by �Indian trust�. �incorporated in India and free from foreign Missionaries, i.e., foreign influence and personnel�. We would suggest that the Committee should find a practical solution regarding the transfer of properties. The National Christian Council is working towards an arrangement by which the foreign Missionary will come to India at the invitation of the Church.
To Mr. Tiwari of Mungeli.- The money which comes from abroad for abundant life movement in Bilaspur District is meant to give relief to the poor, so far as I know. The work which is carried on by this movement is for the uplift of the people and has apparently nothing to do with Communism. I do not think that this programme will involve any loss to the people or Government. I have no objection to the Ramkrishna mission preaching to Christian people. No Christian is under an obligation to exercise his vote�� under any direction of any church, i.e., every Christian has the right and freedom to vote according to his conviction. The group conversions take place very much on the lines as for instance recorded about the story of the conversion of the large number of people on the day of Pentecost. If I am in-charge of any religious institution where I have authority to use money for good causes, if a beggar or a person in need comes to me and I do not have my own money I shall be justified in using this money to help this man though I shall not be justified in giving that help on condition that the needy man accepts the Christian faith. It is not true that all the money that comes from abroad is meant for directly evangelistic purposes. Whatever money comes from abroad if it is for the good of the people should be welcome, whether it is received by the Christian institutions or non-Christian institutions. I will be the first man to stop that money which comes for the purpose of disrupting the national life of the country. To the best of my knowledge no converts have been made under pressure or by use of force or by undue inducement. The control of the affairs of the church must be in the hands of the Indian churches, but a foreigner if he is a member of that church may be assigned any responsibility which the church thinks proper. I do not personally know about Jharkhand, but judging from experience of other part of India I would simply say that I do not believe that the Jharkhand movement has been backed by the church. If there is an impression that foreign Missionary instigates the movement, that is a wrong impression.
To Shri S. K. Deshpande.- I do not know enough about the Jharkhand movement. Those people who have been returned from the Jharkhand to the Bihar State Assembly or to Loksabha are not all Christians; in fact the majority are non-Christians. Mr. Jaipalsingh is not an actively associated with the life of any church or even with the interest of the Christian community I do not know whether or not all the members of the Adiwasi Mahasabha are Christians. Any slur cast on any religion will hurt people belonging to that religion. In propagating Christianity I deprecate any decrying or abuse of other religions. I do not mind healthy criticism of other religions and of social evils. I am hearing for the first time that marriage is a sacrament for all Hindus.
The attention of the witness was drawn to page 2 of Bulletin No. 28 of Christian Home.
Question.- Do you approve of this attack on the Hindu Community?
Answer.- I shall not subscribe to the views. I certainly do not approve of the tone of the writing.
Question.- Do not the Christians also have the system of marriage between Christians and Christians?
Answer.- Yes, because of the affinity of the religion.
Question.- Does the World Council of Churches and National Christian Council take part in politics?
Answer.- If I happen to be a pacifist I may not join either India or any other country in war.
My loyalty to God takes precedence over my loyalty to any other thing, including the nation, as I believe that the church is the body of Christ. Therefore my loyalty to the church as the body of Christ is greater, though I do not believe that such conflict is necessary.
Our Anglican church is affiliated to the church of India, Burma and Ceylon. Whatever help comes to this C.I.P.B.C. comes from Great Britain.
2. Mr. Jacob.- The Resolutions passed at the Bangkok Conference are published, but I do not claim to have read all of them. I subscribe to the idea expressed in the Bangkok World Missionary. Council Conference reported on page 95 of �Christianity and Asian Revolution�, in the sense that the Bible is relevant to the conditions that exist in this country, i.e., in India and other countries of Asia. By Hindu nationalism I mean the movement that is contrary-to the ideal of a secular State.
On the 24th September 1955.- The Lucknow Conference of December 1952 was organised by the East Asia Secretary of the World Council of Churches. It was a study conference in preparation for the second Assembly of the World Council which was held in Evanston in 1954.
The National Christian Council of India has no relation with the World Council but they work in association with the International Missionary Council. Only six churches in India are members of the World Council and of those six churches only five churches are members of the National Christian Council. The Church of India, Burma, Pakistan and Ceylon, the United Church of North India, the Church of South India, the Mar Thoma Syrian Church of Malabar, the Orthodox Syrian Church of Malabar and the Evangelical Lutheran Federation of India.
Hindu nationalism is not condemned because it is against the tenets of Christianity but it is due to social ideologies.
Question.- Is it not a fact that the conference held at Lucknow condemned Hindu nationalism and communism only on the basis that it was opposed t o the tenets of the Christian religion?
Answer.- Hindu nationalism and communism were condemned because they run counter to the ideal of the secular State which in the judgment of the people who took part in the conference is in accordance with the tenets of the Christian religion.
Question.- Is it not a fact that Christianity teaches only those who believe Christianity are, with God and the rest are not?
Answer.- The opinions recorded at Lucknow conference are not the doctrines of the church.
Christians believe that salvation can he achieved only through Jesus Christ. They do not know any other method.
Question.- Was not this conference organised in order to find out means and methods to carry out intensive and extensive methods for convene?
Answer.- It was not a conference to make plans for evangelization.
Evangelism was one of the subjects at the Lucknow conference.
I also adhere to the opinion that loyalty to Christ is above loyalty to the State.
Question.- Does not your loyalty to church come in conflict with your loyalty to the nation?
Answer.- No.
Question-Chairman.- We have claimed exemption from the operation of Madhya Pradesh Trust Act under section 36 (b) and as we are not a trust. Most of the Missions have applied for exemption from that Act because they are not trusts for the benefit of the general public.
I hand
over this written statement bearing upon the questionnaire for the consideration
of the Committee. This should be treated as a confidential document
so long as the Mandamus procedure is pending.
(24-9-1955)
No. 7
Name.-Dr. I., S. Williams.
Caste.-Christian.
Occupation.-Arch
Priest, Indian National Hindustani Church.
Address.-Bombay.<
